Is Your Family Showing Up at Your Office with Guest Bonnie Artman Fox

Jen Sakowski:
Hey there, grab your coffee and let’s talk business. How to grow it, how to sustain it, and how to harness the wonderful worldwide web to do it. With me, your host, Jennifer Sakowski. Let’s get started. Welcome to a brand new episode of Raney Day Talks Podcast. I’m your host, Jennifer Sakowski and today I have a guest. In which this guest is super special to me because not only is she a colleague and a client, but me and this girl goes back to 2013 the year I got married, ’13. Bonnie Artman Fox, welcome.

Bonnie Fox:
Hi Jen.

Jen Sakowski:
Hey, hey. So little bit about Bonnie. I’m just going to jump right on it because I’m too excited. We’ve been sitting here talking and I’m ready to get to the meat. So Bonnie, let me set the stage for y’all. It is freezing cold. I think it was February 2013 and I’m invited to go to a networking event and it was a bunch of women. It was awesome. Everybody stands up and I talk a little bit about… Mind you, you know my story. I moved from the state of Indiana, so complete the Midwest, corn fed and raised homegirl. So as we’re going around the table, everybody has to stand up and tell them who you are, give them a little about themselves and where they’re from. This woman and I would imagine she had on probably like a gorgeous scarf or a pretty top, but like in her little glasses stood up in her perky spunk that which is Bonnie Artman Fox, was like, “I’m Bonnie Artman Fox and I just moved into the state of Illinois,” and just kept talking.

Jen Sakowski:
Well, afterwards I finally made my way up to Bonnie and I said, “I have to talk to you because you just moved to this state. I just moved to this state.” So Bonnie, I’ll let you share more about your business and what brought you here to the great state of Pennsylvania. But I could not help because we share so much in common between the Midwest fruits to those cute boys that brought us to this stage, to starting a business, rocking it out, growing. And we’ve been friends ever since. So Bonnie, tell us, tell the audience who you are, what you do, and a little bit about your history.

Bonnie Fox:
Well, I also remember that day Jen, and it truly was a special day because meeting you has been a highlight for me of being here in Pennsylvania. So it is an honor for me to call you friend.

Jen Sakowski:
Ditto. You all can’t see us, but we’re totally cheesing over here.

Bonnie Fox:
Yes. So yes, I grew up in Midwest Illinois, small farming community and moved here in the middle of 2012 for the boy. I’m also married and moved here. In Illinois, I had a practice as a marriage and family therapist. When I moved here I decided to focus my business on professional speaking and leadership coaching. The reason I did that is because in my therapy office I heard a lot of clients talking about dealing with bad bosses, dysfunctional workplaces that were causing them a lot of stress, anxiety and not being able to sleep at night. When I moved here, I decided I want to go straight to the organizations to do something about it to create a healthy workplace. So that’s been my focus ever since of going into workplaces and help people get along, especially about resolving conflict and building trust amongst teams.

Jen Sakowski:
Yes. Because Bonnie is trying to make her name. She is the go to positive conflict expert. Right? It’s tough for me because I know so much on the backend and I’ve known you for so long that it’s hard to put the context into what you do just because I know you do so much, from not… starting with emotional intelligence. Okay. Y’all, this woman here, can we just bring up New York real quick? I’m going to hijack this, talk about, I just met Bonnie and she’s like, and at that time because her business… your business has evolved, right?

Bonnie Fox:
Yes.

Jen Sakowski:
We’ve done a conscious choice, brought it round Bonnie Artman Fox because shoot, this woman’s a dynamo, but still bringing in a conscious choice and her true foundations. Well with that, it’s a lot about mindfulness. If you know me, I’m super open. If you want to go somewhere like I’m down, let’s try it. She had me in the middle of nowhere in the state of New York in this… I don’t remember what it’s called, but it was this remote place, no Wi-Fi, printer access. We’re in this little shared a cabin with one bathroom eating… I don’t know, salads and doing mindfulness and meditation most of our days. I had no idea what I was in for. But do you know what? That has been such an awesome experience in itself. So I don’t know. I just had to share that because that’s where our friendship goes. We spent so much in the time we’ve done some crazy crunchy meditation/…

Jen Sakowski:
Together, vulnerable work together.

Bonnie Fox:
I remember about that retreat was, we were supposed to be doing this mindfulness meditation and everyone else was serious and somber. I could we not get settled. I got the giggles, I could not stop laughing. Everyone else was like trying to ignore us. Yeah, that road trip was a lot of fun.

Jen Sakowski:
That way. So if y’all are needing to get like serious about your mindfulness contact Bonnie, she knows all the ins, all those places. But anyways, so back on track, because I know we could spend this whole podcast episode telling our stories. But I truly want to get into the meat of your business because you do have so much to offer, not just business owners but entrepreneurs, high level executives. I mean everyone can take away help on how to deal with that abrasive person in your life. For how to deal even not just boss but like clients and family… I mean there’s so much that people can pull from this. So I want to focus on, because you do have a book coming out, I want to reign back in since we come off of the holidays. If anyone here, if you’re like me, you get to spend a lot of time with your family, which is great.

Jen Sakowski:
Oftentimes you’re thrown in a situation that either it’s awkward because no one wants to talk about the elephant in the room or sometimes like, so my family… y’all know, I love you, my sister’s probably listening. So Kelly, don’t say anything, but if it’s something that is not agreed upon or maybe I wouldn’t say wrong but we don’t see eye to eye on, we don’t talk about it. So I know that I can completely identify with the content that you’re putting out within that. But can you talk to us a little bit about… because the main push right now is how did my family get into my office? That’s the book title. That’s what you’ve been working on for so long. Can you just talk a little bit about how you’ve taken your experiences and what you’ve been teaching and coaching on and how it formed into a book?

Bonnie Fox:
Well going back to my practice, my marriage and family therapy practice, as people were talking about the struggles that they were having in their workplaces, we began to identify themes that the struggles that they were having with that difficult person to get along with at work were similar to struggles they had in their own upbringing. And as they identified, this is my opportunity to grow and how I can be different of how I respond to this person, more often than not, the situation improved because they became less reactive. They’ve made again, going back to the name of my business, a conscious choice to respond instead of react. And to truly be the person they wanted to be in that situation, being more mindful, be more aware of what they said and how they said it. Sometimes-

Jen Sakowski:
It’s you, not them almost.

Bonnie Fox:
Sometimes there are people that no matter what you do, they’re hard to get along with. The approach I take is what’s my opportunity to grow here so that I show up as my highest self. More often than not, their work situation improved and or it didn’t improve and they decided, “Okay, I’ve learned what I needed to learn here to grow in my emotional intelligence, in my interpersonal skills. It’s time to move on.” They took those skills with them to their next job. So over the years I saw this pattern that… and actually the name of my practice was Changing Patterns. Over the years I had this idea of how our family dynamics show up in the workplace. So that’s what the premise of the book is about. I’ve interviewed 11 leaders who were willing to share with me in a very candid personal way, their story of what it was like for them growing up. How conflict was handled and how that has impacted how they deal with conflict today as a leader in the workplace.

Bonnie Fox:
What was so amazing about each one of these leaders was their personal insight and self awareness of how they recognized that conflict style isn’t working for me. And how they made the conscious choice to change their conflict pattern for the better. Either that was to change themselves, like from going to be in a conflict avoider to being more assertive and direct. Or some people recognize the role that they had in their family was the same role they were taking on in the workplace. For example, one woman shared the story of, she tended to be a fixer in her family growing up and by golly that was the same role that she had in the workplace. Then there was another leader who talked about the strengths that he learned from his family and how he has taken those strengths and leverage them in the workplace. And that’s the kind of leader that he is today because of what he learned from his family. It’s just been a highlight of my career to interview these leaders, to get to know them and that they’ve trusted me to share their stories with me. They’re just truly remarkable people.

Jen Sakowski:
Can you give us an example or a scenario that’s super common in the workplace that you’ve either had to work through with a client or that you’ve shared with in the past, but something that tends to, most people deal with. Could you walk us through some scenarios and give our audience some tidbits on how they would be able to work through that?

Bonnie Fox:
Well, I’ll go back to the example of the woman who identified herself as a fixer. In her family upbringing, her dad was an alcoholic and her mom had very significant mental illness, some days to the point where her mom couldn’t get out of bed. At a very young age, she was responsible for herself and her younger sister. By age eight she was cooking, by age 11 she was writing checks, by age 14 she had her first job outside of the home and by age 19 she actually owned her first home. That’s how responsible this woman was. It was because of the chaos, the unpredictability in the family from her dad’s drinking and her mom’s mental illness.

Bonnie Fox:
So fast forward then into her career, she recognizes that she is becoming overly responsible. She finds herself in the social worker field in working in domestic violence and it’s very much known to her because of her upbringing. One day her husband said to her, “Why are you always yelling at us?” She didn’t realize how much it had taken a toll on her personal relationships of always being the fixer, always being the one to pick up the pieces and take care of everybody.

Jen Sakowski:
Even at work, right? Like even as a social worker.

Bonnie Fox:
It was happening at work but she was taking it out on those she loved the most. It was when her husband said those words, that was her turning point of recognizing she needed to have boundaries. She needed to stop overfunctioning and start allowing people to be responsible for the choices that they were making. And to be aware of that tendency to want in and jump to fix it things instead of allowing people to figure things out on their own and experience the consequences when they didn’t. As you can imagine, that took time and that was a process. We can all have those awarenesses about herself, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that we change.

Jen Sakowski:
Right. Especially change habits and how we talk.

Bonnie Fox:
Yeah. So for her it was specifically of what she did differently was to set boundaries and to be aware of allowing people to experience the consequences of their choices. And be aware of that tendency within her to want to jump in and to kind of hold herself back. Because as you can imagine, when we start changing and other people aren’t used to us being different, that it’s kind of like, “Who are you and what did you do with…” in this case it was Maria. Like, “I’m used to you always fixing things for me and picking up the pieces so I don’t have to be responsible.” When she was no longer doing that, she got push back from her family and different people who wanted her to be the way they always knew her to be. So there’s a whole shift in dynamic then in the relationship that when we make these changes we have to be aware of so we don’t get pulled back our old patterns.

Jen Sakowski:
That’s awesome. For our audience, I know that this is, you go deeper into this in a blog post. I’ll make sure to link that in the show notes because that is an awesome and I think you go even more detailed on some actionable steps to take to like step backwards, if that is you. So I’ll make sure to put that in. Now, I know one thing that come up talking with you and coming off the holidays once again is that you have this thing called the Mokita. And if that’s not to be confused with a Makita, no, I can’t even say it. It is not an adult beverage.

Bonnie Fox:
No. It’s not.

Jen Sakowski:
As most, when you first brought that up to me, I was like Bonnie, where are we going? But talk to me a little bit about this elephant in the room and what you turned into this awesome, awesome, well now bonus that we’re going to be rolling out on your site. What is that?

Bonnie Fox:
Yes. So as I was doing research for the book, I came across this word from one of the tribes in Papa new Guinea, Mokita.

Jen Sakowski:
Mokita.

Bonnie Fox:
Mokita, that again, it’s not a drink. It means the truth we know about and agree not to speak of. In our English language it’s the elephant in the room. And so I do have a… if it shows up on the screen.

Jen Sakowski:
For our audience who’s listening in, it’s an elephant. Like how clever is that elephant in the room? That’s Mokita.

Bonnie Fox:
It says Mokita on it. So yes. We talk about it in the book that oftentimes in families and in workplaces, there are situations where everyone knows about it and agrees not to speak of. Maybe it’s the under-performer in the workplace. Or whether it’s a coworker or boss who’s overly aggressive and has a temper that goes from zero to 10 in a matter of seconds. We all have those Mokitas both in our families and in our workplaces. The Mokita is as to use this at work or at home, I encourage people to use it as like a talking stick and as a fun way of breaking the ice, of taking it to an employee meeting, a staff meeting and saying we’ve got a Mokita here. I want to bring up the Mokita. It’s a way to get so that everyone in advance and knows what it is and it’s giving the group permission to talk about the things that tend to be avoided or are uncomfortable. Some of my clients have used them and they’ve said Bonnie, “My Mokita is getting a lot of use these days.”

Jen Sakowski:
Yeah. Because those are hot items, are so hot right now that with the pre-order and the launch of the book, that’s something that you are able to sell just because it is such a hot topic and it has been so beneficial to your audience.

Bonnie Fox:
Excuse me Jen, I want to tell you something that happened.

Jen Sakowski:
Interrupt away.

Bonnie Fox:
I gave a keynote recently at an organization and after everyone had left the ballroom, I was putting together all my props. When I speak, I tend to have props that are interactive with the audience and this one person was waiting for me in the back and I didn’t realize it at the time they were waiting for me. As I was walking out, he said, “I want to thank you for today.” I said, “Oh, I’m glad that it was helpful for you.” He said, then he held up his Mokita and he said, “This is going to help me talk to them.”

Jen Sakowski:
Oh wow.

Bonnie Fox:
“To the leaders who…” okay, I don’t know the details, but that’s something’s going on there that he has not felt the courage yet to talk about it. Because I introduced it during my speaking program during the keynote and everybody have the… This particular client bought a Mokita for every employee. So again, giving permission, we want to be a work culture here that we talk about the things that need to be talked about instead of avoid them or put them under the rug. So this is the culture that this organization wants to create and gave everyone… He said, this is really going to help me. So that was just in a recent example of how people are finding the Mokita helpful.

Jen Sakowski:
Yes, absolutely. Now, with this book, tell us who the audience, like who is this book intended for? The ones that could benefit them most, where would they be at?

Bonnie Fox:
Well, really the book, everyone I think can benefit from the stories of seeing themselves in these myriad of situations that each of the leaders shared. Every story was different and unique. The book is actually geared towards leaders, HR professionals, managers, people who do have leadership responsibilities. However, anybody at any level, because we all have a family and most of us are working that it applies to anybody who’s working. Specifically though it’s intended for leaders to apply in their leadership to be more intentional, to address conflict directly, proactively with productive conflict management strategies. At the end of every chapter, the leader provided what they found help well in transforming their complex style that wasn’t working for them and or as I said earlier, leveraging their family strengths. After they provide their… Well, let me back up. Each chapter is broken down into the leader’s story in their words and they’re productive conflict strategies.

Bonnie Fox:
Then I provide a reflection that I call the family factor. The family factor is the connection between how conflict was handled in their upbringing and still impacts us today. I give a reflection about the leader’s family factor to make it clear to the reader of how our family shows up in the office. Then I provide several self reflection questions for the reader to reflect, “Okay, how am I going to apply this to my life or to my leadership?”

Jen Sakowski:
That’s phenomenal. Now let’s take it one step further so someone gets your book and they’re eating up, but they need additional help in their office or they need may, whether it’s within their office or within their team. Is there ways that you can come in and help? What else do you offer? What would be the next step?

Bonnie Fox:
I also provide leadership and coaching for leaders who maybe are conflict avoidant and they recognize there’s Mokitas in the office and their having a difficult time addressing them. Or the person who recognizes I have a temper, I can go from zero to 10 in a matter of seconds. I can also help that leader to be more aware of their leadership style and how to transform from being overly aggressive to increasing their empathy. Which by the way, there is a story in the book about a leader who self identified as being overly aggressive and how she transformed her leadership style. I’m about to launch a coaching program I am so excited about, it’s called Conscious Conflict Coaching. That is geared towards, again, anyone, an employee, a leader who wants to be more intentional of how they manage conflict.

Bonnie Fox:
Again, it can range from being that conflict avoider to being the overly aggressive. As you know, also the name of my coaching program for that overly aggressive person is called Leadership Turnaround and that’s a separate coaching program. Aside from my coaching, I also do speaking, I go into organizations and provide workshops, leadership retreats, team assessments about the strength of the team, the level of trust, the ability to address conflict. I provide conflict assessments to help people identify what is their conflict style. And also keynotes for organizations, for employee trainings, for special events at conferences.

Jen Sakowski:
I have to ask because I’m always so interested. Where does the emotional intelligence come in? Because you also work a lot. And you bring in a lot of your education, your background, your training from that side. So can you talk a little bit too about how that plays a role in managing conflict?

Bonnie Fox:
Yes. Emotional intelligence, as you know, is about being self-aware, knowing ourselves, and then being aware of managing of, okay, we have these awarenesses, how do we manage those triggers that we have within ourselves? Then how does that impact how we relate to others and has the ripple effect throughout the entire organization. So yes, the emotional intelligence piece is very much integrated into all of my work. And I just love seeing people make those connections for themselves and especially about, “Oh my goodness, the reason I’m having a hard time getting along with this person is they’re taking me back home.” That’s our code word for my family is in my office, I’m back home. Again, this isn’t about changing anybody else because good luck with that. I don’t know about you, we all know we can’t but sure wish we would. How can I change? What’s my opportunity here so I show up as my best self?

Bonnie Fox:
Especially as a leader, when leaders are more intentional of how they show up. As you know, leaders set the tone for the organization. And it creates a safety that people feel it’s safe, that I can challenge the status quo. I can admit that I made a mistake and I know I’m not going to be thrown under the bus. In fact, it’s going to be celebrated because I tried something new. It didn’t work, but we learned from it and that’s going to help us as we move forward. Boy, when people work in those type of work environments, people thrive, people look forward to going to work.

Jen Sakowski:
And the leaders need to identify that there is a massive return. There’s a return on your investment, not just on the bottom line, but their productivity that increases within the workplace.

Bonnie Fox:
Right. It also brings out their best thinking in terms of their brain. This goes back to mindfulness, that when we are staying calm, being aware of our triggers and our tad. When we perceive a threat, our anxiety goes up and we tend to defend with our fight or flight response. When we’re managing that, our best thinking comes out in our prefrontal cortex. This is where we’re able to see the big picture. We’re able to problem solve. We’re able to be creative, innovative. Even if we start to feel triggered, we’re able to manage that without flipping our lid. Again, all of that is tied into emotional intelligence.

Jen Sakowski:
Yes. So I don’t know if I’ve ever shared this with you from way back when we first started, even through when we went through New York and I learned more about meditation and being mindfulness. I know you are the direct person that has impacted me on, I can hear Bonnie’s voice when the situation comes up and then I breathe. It might’ve been the women’s group that you led at your house and we talked about mindfulness and being still. There’s so many times that I can hear Bonnie’s voice in my head of just breathing and me just counting in and giving myself those three breaths when I go to react to something. Even in early on, I may not say this, but there’s a lot that you have taught me with mindfulness about being self aware that has caused me to dig deeper into how I show up in my triggers, not just in my workplace but in my relationship with my husband and even my kids. Like I can hear you in my head.

Jen Sakowski:
So I just want you to know and for our audience that I should be giving you a testimony because I do, I hear Bonnie saying that to quiet your thoughts and to come back. Because I’ve attended some of your meditation before where you let them and I can hear you. So a lot of times my meditation voice is Bonnie Artman Fox and I’m not joking. Even now, I guess I hadn’t realized that. But yeah, a lot of what I’ve learned and what you say, there’s nuggets that I even take from when we post your blogs and when my team works, I’m like that’s good. That’s good. I know like even our team several before that’s come and gone that they have taken it and run with the content they put out.

Jen Sakowski:
So please know whoever’s listening, Bonnie Artman Fox is not just for top level executives, it’s any leader, anyone. Once again, that wants to make change and be more aware of how they show up in situations, especially in the office but it does carry over at home. So for the book, I know we had mentioned that’s coming out later this year, early spring that when it comes out right now, if you are interested in pre-ordering, if you go to Bonnieartmanfox.com/… Well, actually if you just go to Bonnie Artman Fox there’s a big button on the right hand side that says pre-order book, but you can drop in and go ahead and get on the list. Since then, Bonnie, you want to tell us a little bit about what’s up, what’s to come. I mean, you know you mentioned about the coaching, but talk to us about what’s coming down the pipeline. What’s next for you?

Bonnie Fox:
Oh, I am so excited. I’m really in the midst right now of recording videos that are going to be part of the bonus for the book. In the videos, the video series is called, What’s Your Family Factor? And it’s a way for the listener to be aware of how is my family in my office and using the stories from the leaders in the book. So I’m real excited about that. I’m also putting together a conflict resolution checklist and that’s also something that you can read before you go into a staff meeting, have a difficult conversation with a colleague or employee. It’s a way to be in that mindset of, again, how are you going to show up, showing up as your best self so that other person is more likely to respond instead of react themselves? I just want to go back and talk about the mindfulness. Sometimes I think mindfulness gets a bad rap about its.

Jen Sakowski:
Absolutely, it’s too woo-woo.

Bonnie Fox:
Yeah. It’s really about calming down our emotional reactivity and we have learned so much about through the brain science in the last 10, 15 years of how much our brain, when we are triggered and emotionally we go into that fight or flight response, we not only can’t think as clearly and not be aware of our words and how we say. It also will increase the anxiety of the other person because that employee, that colleague, that client, customer consents you’re on the defense or you’re all riled up and that puts them in a heightened state of reactivity. And not as much gets accomplished because we’re in that self protective mode. So there truly is a physiological reason behind practicing the mindfulness and calming down our reactivity. So we respond instead of react and make conscious choices. Again in our words and what we say and how we say it.

Jen Sakowski:
If someone’s listening and want to dive a little bit more into mindfulness, being aware of how they show up, like where would they get started? Because I know you gave me crash courses.

Bonnie Fox:
Yeah.

Jen Sakowski:
When you’re sitting across from gentlemen from Google and having to steer deeply into him while you’re doing. I mean I was thrown into the deep end, but if somebody was just starting to take baby steps and especially our entrepreneurs leaders especially, what would you say or how would you say to get started?

Bonnie Fox:
A couple of things. First of all, if you take a breath in to the count of four and breathe out to the count of six just a couple seconds longer and do that four times, that’s a way of decreasing your amygdala, the brain’s reactive fight or flight, and increasing the relaxation response in your body. Just doing that, it takes roughly a minute before you go into a difficult conversation. If you could take five minutes, that would be even better, but even just being intentional of your breath to calm yourself down, that’s one thing. Another exercise could be, let’s say you’re driving to a client meeting or to work and you’re anticipating a difficult conversation or a tense meeting.

Bonnie Fox:
To truly be present as you’re driving, turn the radio off, not be on the phone and truly be grounded and focused so that you are all in when you walk into work or walk into that client meeting. As you do shut off your car to set your intention of how you want to show up when you go into that conversation. Making those conscious choices that starts with us. And it’s us being intentional of deciding in advance who we want to be and making that pre-commitment to ourselves.

Jen Sakowski:
Can I throw you on the spot?

Bonnie Fox:
Sure.

Jen Sakowski:
Would you do a really brief just breathing exercise? Lead it?

Bonnie Fox:
Sure.

Jen Sakowski:
Okay. I’ll do it with you and that way we have it on record. So if you can, don’t stop like if you’re driving, but-

Mindfulness Meditation lead by Bonnie Artman Fox

Bonnie Fox:
Yeah. Please don’t do this if you’re driving, but if you are listening and seated, if you would please put your feet on the floor and sit in a dignified in upright position. The whole intention of mindfulness is to be fully present and grounded in your body and close your eyes if that’s comfortable for you or look down at the floor with the low gaze. First of all, just to be aware of what it’s like to sit here. Feeling your body in the chair. Feeling your feet on the floor and just checking in, just noticing what’s there. And without judgment, simply being curious about what’s going on inside of you right now.

Bonnie Fox:
Is there any tightness in your shoulders? Maybe a headache coming on or simply nothing at all. Just be aware of what’s here. Now, focusing on your breath, breathing into the count of four. One, two, three, four. And breathing out the count of six. One, two, three, four, five, six. Do that many times on your own please. Once again, checking in with your body and notice if anything is different. Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t. You’re simply checking in, being curious. In a moment we’ll open our eyes and before we do, simply thank yourself for giving yourself this time to take care of yourself, to be kind to yourself. When you’re ready, you could open your eyes.

Jen Sakowski:
Thank you. And in doing so, man, I encourage everyone just to like hit save on this recording. Because it’s amazing how much centered and calmer I feel after giving myself a few moments just to check in and to slow myself down.

Bonnie Fox:
Again, that brings out your best thinking when we simply take that pause, that conscious pause.

Jen Sakowski:
That’s amazing. Thank you so much for letting me to throw you on, just throw that at you at the last minute. We did not plan for that, but I couldn’t resist because now you know what I hear in my head when I do those breathing techniques. You’re all welcome. Well, Bonnie, I am so excited that we had this opportunity. We’ve been planning this for so long and with the launch of the book coming, I was like, we have to do this like this. Especially with coming off the holidays and being with our family, then jumping back into work, it just seemed like the perfect timing. So thank you so much.

Bonnie Fox:
Thank you, Jen. I really appreciate it. It’s an honor to be here with you and thank you for everything you’ve done to help leverage my business.

Jen Sakowski:
Thank you. Thank you. Once again for our audience, connect with Bonnie at bonnieartmanfox.com, you’ll be able to read, pre-order the book there as well as drop her a message. She’s active on social especially LinkedIn. Definitely check her out there, but do not hesitate if you are, “You know what? I do have an abrasive boss or you know what? I need to get my team on the same page.” Contact Bonnie today. So if you found this helpful, this episode, please make sure I want to hear from you. I’m always looking to hear other topics and more from our audience. So hashtag Raney Day Talks Podcast and find us on raneydaydesign.com as well as jennifersakowski.com. Thank you so much. Thank you Bonnie.

Bonnie Fox:
Thanks Jen.

Connect with Bonnie Artman Fox

Site: https://bonnieartmanfox.com/
Book: https://bonnieartmanfox.com/pre-order-book/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bonnieartmanfox/

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